Friday, March 19, 2010

Anti Assimilation Land™ - the explanation for everything

What is Israel? If you listen to Xymphora, Israel is, cue the fanfare... Anti Assimilation Land™. This is a phrase of Xymph's own creation and he's clearly very fond of it. Says Xymph, Israel exists on account of Jewish people's keenness for some kind of genetic purity. Or is it cultural purity? Whatever it is, Israel is the means whereby Jewish people can hang on to their treasured Jewishness.

What with Xymphora's propensity for peremptorily banning people from his comments, it's difficult to know but I ask the question regardless: Does Anti Assimilation Land™ as a description of Israel make any sense to anyone? Really? What is it?

I'll admit I can understand the need of Jewish people to battle assimilation. It's a war they've been losing for over 2000 years now. From the Marranos in Spain, the Donme in Turkey, and all those Sabbateans throughout the capitals of Europe, all exemplified by individuals like Shabbatai Tzevi and Jacob Frank through to Adam Pearlman and Joseph Cohen - it's just been one long nightmarish haemorrhaging of the Jewish identity. Honestly, it's a wonder that there's any Jews left at all.

Fatuousness aside, Jews are about nothing if not anti-assimilation. And it was always thus: us-and-them is, was, and always will be, the alpha and omega of their DNA. It's all that they are. There is nothing that a distinct homeland like Israel can bring to this equation. Besides which, all the identity sapping Hollywood drivel that the Jews foist on goyim outside of Israel is all right there inside Israel. They even have their own skinheads who like to beat up Jews. As for genetic assimilation... ha ha ha - everyone may feel free to roll their eyes. Up at the pointy end of the pyramid, the once-were-Jewish Sabbateans who founded Israel and choose not to live there, can look after their genetic material perfectly well thanks very much. They don't need a country for that. As for the dispensable hoi polloi, who cares? As long as they serve their masters, the masters don't care if they're black, white, or piebald.

Now that I think about it, the only rule is that wherever Jews live, they must look and sound just like everyone else. I know Jewish guys in China and Japan who married the locals and whose kids will be perfect Jewish chameleons. A jewish mother? All that persnickety shit? When it comes to the crunch none of it matters.

Xymphora's description of Israel is nonsense, and specious nonsense at that. I don't know where he's leading people with such rubbish but I think the expression 'nowhere useful' should pretty much cover it. As far as Xymph is concerned the world is very simple. There are Jews who love Israel to a greater or lesser degree, and there are goyim. And that's pretty much it. Banking is neither here nor there. The Protocols of Zion are a forgery. Apart from declared structures like AIPAC and the Bilderbergers etc. there are no structures that count. The pedophocracy doesn't exist. Satanism? The stuff of movies. As to why the American ruling class seems to constantly betray its own interests, Xymph is stumped. And 911? A very tricky beast for Xymph, one which he approaches very warily - best not to go there really.

With such a worldview nothing but gibberish can result. And so it is with Xymph's latest piece, some rubbish about Planning for a Post Israeli Warworld™. Apparently Jews have provided the Pentagon with Wars For The Jews™, ie. our current wars on Muslims, and what with Israel due for destruction any day now (no explanation as to why - it just is) the Pentagon will be stumped.
Folks in the Pentagon aren't dumb. Withing ten years, Jewish Israel won't exist. What then for the generals? How will the Pentagon transition to a world without Wars For The Jews?
No wars! Disaster! The world's biggest military - running around like heads with no chickens.

But it's good news apparently. Whilst the Jews do control the media, that's not enough to control the Pentagon/MIC who are just too strong. So once Israel is gone, the Pentagon won't need it to gin up wars for them and thus they can drop Israel. And then Israel, which was gone to begin with, will really be gone. Circular Logic - my favourite sort. Sure enough, without Israel as the only reason for Jewish control, America will be free at last, free at last! Or something like that. Either way, it's good apparently and we should all be pleased.

Yeah. You'd have to wonder what the Pentagon did before the Israeli lobby took over US foreign policy. What were all those other wars? Why was the US in Hawaii, the Philippines, Central and South America? Were they to be homelands for the Jews? I'll admit that it's possible that all of those were Wars For The Jews™. But how could they have been, without Israel in the picture? Perhaps it was an anti-assimilation policy by way of a global thousand-points-of-light?

Keep in mind that in Xymph's world there is no such thing as privately owned international banking, certainly none with any power to achieve anything. Adam Weisshaupt and his Rothschild bankrolled Illuminati friends played no role in the French revolution. No one backed Napoleon nor played both sides of the Napoleonic wars. No one bought the Bank of England. The first world war was some variety of well-what-do-you-expect. There were no bankers at Versailles. Stalin wasn't bankrolled by anyone, nor was Hitler, well, not beyond some free beers at that beer hall that time. "Who wants the free beers?" "Just putsch them right here thanks barkeep!" hyuk hyuk.

Whatever. I just made all that up. Xymph doesn't really do history. No need since it's easier to dismiss banking as playing any role in anything. According to Xymphora, it's all about Israel as ultimate be-all-and-end-all to Jewish aspirations with the ultimate tier of power in this enterprise comprised of The Jewish Billionaires™. These billionaires are not bankers but rather some variety of the owners of the means of production. Xymph is down with Marx in declaring 'Bankers? What bankers?'

Meanwhile here at this infinitely less famous blog, where we groove on a slightly more nuanced view of the world, let's see if we can't paint a more sensible picture of Israel. In thinking that Israel is doomed, Xymph is actually correct. Israel is to be destroyed but not in spite of the best efforts of a handful of give-us-Israel-or-give-us-death billionaires. It's to be destroyed because it, like Elvis and Michael Jackson, will have become more valuable dead than alive. And its founders who eat billionaires for breakfast won't shed a tear. This on account of the fact they are perfectly cynical bastards who are as devoted to the Jewish cause as Walmart is to all their staff for whom they bought life insurance policies.

The people who founded Israel have ambitions way beyond the Shitty Little Country. They look at the world and think, 'Why not?' Go read the Protocols. Tell me it isn't a blueprint, and a good one at that. And as if people with ambitions at that scale, along with the global-banking means to achieve it, are going to baulk at one crummy bit of real estate in a waterless DU dusted hellhole and all pivoting on a religion that they no longer believe in.

Israel was not founded to be a sanctuary for the Jews. This was just a cover story like WMD's in Iraq was a cover story. We know this because the Nazi's efforts to send the Jews of Germany to Israel were viewed by the Zionists not as any kind of gift horse but rather as an opportunity for protracted dental inspections. Besides which the Holocaust wasn't re-imagined as, and named after, a variety of sacrifice for no reason.

Israel was just a vehicle, a geographically based means of utility, and all to the truly grand purpose of achieving the long sought after New World Order. The fact that the entire population of Israel fell for the lie that it was all about them was, well... what do you expect from the self-obsessed? Like they were ever going to believe otherwise.

And then there's Xymphora. I'm not saying don't read him. For everyone who lives in that world with no banking elite, free of satanists, organised paedophiles, and other such chimeras, and with the Jews solely in orbit around nothing but their Anti Assimilation Land™, he's entirely peerless. Meanwhile back in the real world, I wouldn't give you tuppence for him.


Anonymous said...

Wow! Interesting stuff. I may quote some of it later. "You'd have to wonder what the Pentagon did before the Israeli lobby took over US foreign policy. What were all those other wars? Why was the US in Hawaii, the Philippines, Central and South America? Were they to be homelands for the Jews? I'll admit that it's possible that all of those were Wars For The Jews™. But how could they have been, without Israel in the picture?" Excellent.

- Aangirfan.

Anonymous said...


You managed to get the forged Protocols in there but skillfully avoided mentioning the forged Mazzizi letter. No point in causing upset where it is not needed :-)

Now here is a nice little conflict of interest conundrum; the Jews own the Pentagon but so do the mob, so unless the mob are Jewish something doesn't compute.

Anonymous said...

I pressed the wrong button on my blog, in relation to Mumbai. I have now pressed the right button.

- Aangirfan

Anonymous said...


Why did that happen, perhaps it's some God of richousness making ammends for other peoples disappeared comments. Can you take care of it Nobs?

A. Peasant said...

haha, wicked! excellent.

FB, according to my research the mob is (ultimately) jewish.

here's a great link i found the other day, (aan i think you will love it):

Penny said...

Hey nobody;

funny stuff, funny indeed.

I have lost my taste for xymphora's blog, or actually, it left me with a bad taste.

The way he/she comes down on the people who question global warming orthodoxy is over the top, I mean, seriously hysterical, irrational.

Not even adressing the riches to be reaped by the desired carbon bubble, drooled over by Goldman Sachs?????? I mean what is with that?

Then that link to desmog blog, which is a pr firm connected to Al Gore's investment firm?

Don't even get me going on the ridiculousness of some of the claims with regard to h1n1 scam.

As for the whole 'war for the jews', you are absolutely right, what in the hell were all those wars about prior to the creation of Israel?

It is as if someone is plagued with tunnel vision.

Anonymous said...


This is fun indeed, I posted the last and then thought I should have asked if the server was having a yom kippur moment. There, I've now got it out of my system.

kikz said...

speaking as to an explanation of everything...

after trying to compose a concise reply to arabwomanblues squelching profanity filled rant, (w/no possibility to leave comment on) which joesixpack so kindly posted in les' origami post/comments today..

and then here to find backhanded comments from fb (which i assume by mention of the mazzizi letter)flung in my general direction...winkwinknudgenudge... ' as not to cause upset where it not needed :-)'

i'll leave my note to the arab woman here w/y'all as it does seem to be at least, at this hour, this explanation for everything.

“I have noticed something that keeps staring me in the eye --and it's very simple really..IT can be summarized in two words. - your oppressor wants you to shut the fuck up.”

you can’t count even in your own Arabic numbers? that’s 9 words.
your race was once the most mathematically advanced on the planet… what the fuck happened to you?

“Why can't I go back home now that you have liberated me ? Did anyone of you assholes sitting in your fucked crime ridden cities ever ask yourself this question ?!”

actually…… I have.
my conclusion; after sifting through the millennial failings of both our indisputably barbaric cultures, their greed, their wars, their religions…

we - as the wives, mothers, daughters and sisters of men - loved them, then birthed them, taught them to respect and emulate other barbaric men, and through our own shortsightedness allowed them free reign to burn, rape and pillage the world. we had more mundane things to do; tend their children, tend their homes, clean up their messes, cook their food…and allowed ourselves to believe that this was our lot, this was all we deserved by our very nature - to be marginalized by our very physical gender to the fringes of ‘this play’….that we ultimately suffer so much of its ugly consequences…
they were free … to become and remain the dick-led barbarians we all still suffer today.

the camel is already in the tent…..but, aristophanes’ lysistrata had the right idea….
failing that… kill them in their sleep.

kikz said...

forgot to chk the followup comments box..

A. Peasant said...

aan, what mean you by pressing the wrong button on mumbai?

Anonymous said...


Now there, there Klikz - I can tell you are upset!

Let me just say this, referencing the Mazzizi Letter was bang on and supported Nobbs point that whether the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are forgeries or not, it doesn't make what they say untrue. In a similar way whether it was genuine or not, the Mazzizi Letter forecasts that the country of Israel would eventually fall and its creation was only a useful stepping stone for the event organisers. I haven't read the M&D in a similar way that I haven't read the Talmud but I am prepared to accept a synopsis from sources I trust; in these days of information overload it is all you can do. I always respect people who tell me something I don't know and up until you told me the Mazzizi Letter was a hoax I believed it to be true. I therefore bow to the greater depth of your knowledge and was and am prepared to call the frivolous throwaway line you objected to, a comment too far and apologise. That is until you issued a fatwa against my species. Now I know you were angry and you didn't mean it. Just look at the downer Macbeth had when a woman worked through him. And just consider, that if you did achieve your objective then the ones who are left could all be like Arabwomanblues. One final point, you said “...this was all we deserved by our very nature - to be marginalized by our very physical gender to the fringes of ‘this play’. I would point you to that wonderfully warm and kind hearted human being Margaret Thatcher, need I say more.

Can we just call a truce and go on being friends.

nobody said...

Hello all, this is kind of fun, the unmoderated comments thing. Yeah, right up until the point the racial supremacists lob in and start flinging shit everywhere, ha ha. White or Jewish, it's hard to tell 'em apart sure enough. Anyway, so far so good.

And FB, sorry mate but on the protocols that was me channeling Xymph. Me, I think the protocols are real, or to put it more accurately a 'true expression of intent'. I had a spray about it here. Actually now that I think about it, I took an ambiguous line there too with people being confused then as well. Anyway, long and short my position is that even if the protocols is a forgery it's still one of the most extraordinary documents ever and as every bit worthy of study, debate, and reference as Machiavelli or Sun Tzu or even Thomas More.

But no one studies it and there is no debate beyond an out-of-hand dismissal. If it was a forgery there'd be no harm in discussing it surely? In fact wouldn't such a discussion lead us to better understand the pathology of anti-Semitism, a false and pernicious ideology? We're allowed to view anti-Semitic artwork, why may we not read anti-Semitic writing? Especially fallacious writing!

But no, we may not read it and the reason for that is because... cue the obvious conclusion... it's not a forgery and what it says is true.

As for Mazzizi... um, head scratch. Has this come up before? It must have done. Oh wait was it in that long argument I lost the plot on? Anyway I'll whack it into google and catch up.

PS Aangirfan was talking about a don't-publish I sent the schoolgirls' way that I'm guessing did briefly appear and then unappeared. No problems either way really, just me doing my usual hyperbolical gushing. Thanks Aang.

And thanks AP, Pen, and Kikz
nice to have so many, um... chikz

And arabwoman, origami? what? what? Of I go now..

kikz said...

"Anyway, long and short my position is that even if the protocols is a forgery it's still one of the most extraordinary documents ever and as every bit worthy of study, debate, and reference as Machiavelli or Sun Tzu or even Thomas More.

But no one studies it and there is no debate beyond an out-of-hand dismissal. If it was a forgery there'd be no harm in discussing it surely? In fact wouldn't such a discussion lead us to better understand the pathology ..."

noby, we can yap the protocols, we can yap the mazzizi letter.. but
here's one i'd like to add to that list...of interesting shit w/mysterious origins written to mysterious parties...i've read this one is thought to be attributed to the rockefeller clan, but would fit most any dynastic power structure.

'the occult technology of power'

this, is a must read.

fb, the 'fatwah' as you termed it, was intended for barbarians..
if you don't fit that description well, i wasn't referring to that subsection of your species :)

and never take my word for anything.. always verify to your satisfaction the truth or untruth of something.. but, if you need alt sources to make an informed judgment on aspects of freemasonry, i'm more than happy to furnish you w/doc endorsed from their side of things, as usually the obverse is in glut.

vf/// moonia???? hahahaha

A. Peasant said...

oh glad that we're still on track with the unraveling of mumbai. i counted and aan has written over 50 posts on it, which i happen to rely on, so just making sure there was no big forehead slap...

kikz said...

and regrets.. the arabwomanblues rant was on petri dish, not origami.. my bad...

i powr'd down early last nite.. and had catch up to do this am...

been up since 3A my time.. long day..

james said...


nobody said...

Thanks for that link Kikz. I had a look and realised I've read it before. Attributed to the Rockefellers eh? It's definitely got that vibe to it. Frankly I doubt such a thing would be written down. Far more likely to be done as word of mouth. Especially for such an important and singular event like the passing of the reins from a bazillionaire to his chosen successor son. You know what I mean? For each family it only happens once in a generation.

But! It's a hell of a read. So I saved it to desktop and I'll read it again at home. Ciao Ciao.

Anonymous said...

A good read Nobby.

and Kikz...
I appreciate all of you that I read, let me count the ways
Thank you too
How are your girls?
My grand daughter has now turned six and is sorting her place in the world nicely, thank you again


nobody said...

Tony! Lovely to see you pop in again. I hope you're well mate. And not too drenched, ha ha. (local weather gag)

gallier2 said...

Hey boys and girls, do you ahave a reference to this Mazzizi letter? I tried a search on the web and there is absolutely 0 result, which is odd.

kikz said...

MazziNi… firstly…..

ok, here’s an independent source, which quotes obvious Masonic origins (almost current to the events) on the taxil hoax…the mazziNi connection is mentioned in chap X. … but, I would suggest you read the entire index, jumpin in @X w/o requisite context w/be .. less than enlightening.

and a synopsis of the ‘Palladian’ order

here’s a modern (Canadian)Masonic source on the taxil hoax…the Mazzini connection etc ..and one of it’s latest authors.. (circa 1950’s) carr….link at bottom of page general jump point to oodles… of stuff…

now, pike and M&D don’t apply to this specific conversation…. I have/read for 10yrs.. a physical cc of M&D, that belonged to my daddy, when he went thru his degrees in the 60’s… so I can verify at least content, and hopefully argue context w/some verifiable authority.

(warning run-on sentence ahead) punctuation/grammar police alert :P)

ok, so to matters talumic.. as of yesterday… digging back thru the canuk website, I must NOW admit and amend that while I have never actually read a physical translated copy of either type of the Talmud…
if anyone would have an actual cc, and any possibility to have a goy translate it, it would be the freemasons… so I’ll work frm there….

I personally cannot now verify in what context -what I have earlier read online (in all its horrors) was/or is accurate w/any degree of certainty as to actual content; while I am no scholar, and source material for translations of the Talmud are as numerous as hen’s teeth, I have made an error in judgment, (and certainly not followed by own advice to fb – to verify as best I could) and allowed my elementary understanding of nol kidre to color my opine of other questionable online talmud translations and give more credence to them than is/was due..
past personal problems finding accurate or even existent english translations to even heeb kid songs that my kids for choir class we forced to sing in heeb/sans translation – my ‘knowing the word’ goy… which is vulgar slang for ‘all others’ certainly added to a negative pre-existant bias… I however, still tend to fall on the side of.. if there is nothing to hide frm the goy, why don’t more translations exist as to remove all doubt? the peace song w/the phrase goy – there existed no word/word translation that I could find……. I searched for hours….. tried word translators, such as babelfish.. stopping just short of hiring an online live translator, due to my funding restrictions…
"All personal vows we are likely to make, all personal oaths and pledges we are likely to take between this Yom Kippur and the next Yom Kippur, we publicly renounce. Let them all be relinquished and abandoned, null and void, neither firm nor established. Let our personal vows, pledges and oaths be considered neither vows nor pledges nor oaths."[4][5]
which is essentially – a ‘get out of moral jail free card’… much akin to catholic absolution.
ie., “we can lie, steal, cheat, and yaweh is cool w/it…. such a deal!”

i just wanted to clear that up..

kikz said...

damnAsight.. tony.. long time no see...
glad ta hear your grandbaby is doin well...hope all the family is...

my tribe is fine.. tween/teen emotional dramas/traumas abide *sigh* :))))

well thank you...tony... i write from my heart/gut.. sometimes what one 'eats' can alter intuition, effecting both... as i explained in the earlier post..

hope you're still having a positive experience if you've continued w/your lodge...?
studying pike can illuminate many subjects - religion aside.

to sum up.. like i assume most of us here...

i'm just lookin for truth...

huh:) wv - disse....interesting :)

kikz said...

and just to go into link overload for the wknd...

happy vernal equinox/osiris-orion day y'all :)

the scot-irish just hafta kick off early ;)

Sabretache said...

With due apologies for being right off-topic but this is the only way to contact - post or not as you see fit.

There's a thread on the Deep Politics Forum entitled corporate entity becomes 'candidate' kicks off bid for Congress that I think you might appreciate not least because one of the exchanges - with Monty Python-esq levity - proposes that a certain 'Nobody' stand for election. But chiefly because, following yesterday's shock-horror revelations of Ministers for sale , the rest of the thread is developing into something worthy of its very own Monty Python sketch - its bloody hilarious and Christ do I need a bit of levity lately.

Recommended - and be sure to get through to page 3 and the Leonard Rossiter 'Forces of Anarchy' video. You'll leave it with a spring in your step.

Anonymous said...


I am not doing very well here, that's three mistakes I have made in no time at all. First I read Nobs comment on the Protocols the way it came over instead of the way it was meant. Then with Klikz, I thought that “Kill them in their sleep” followed directly on from “dick led” instead of the broader topic of barbarians, so there was a bit of short hand thinking. And finally I confused Gallier by screwing up the spelling of Mazzini's name. You will have to take my word on this because I have a feeling that trying to repeat the mistake will come up with a different outcome but what happened was that Instead of going to my original source I typed Mazini with one Z into Google and it came back with “Did you mean Mazzizi” and in my haste I thought “That will do” and used it. One thing about me is that if I make a mistake I will stick my hand up for it and not try to hide at the back of the class. Here is where I originally discovered about the Mazzini letter

I do agree with Klikz statement about checking sources. Each person has things which are of special interest to them which you research to death and then there are things of more general interest which you are prepared to accept or reject in principle without doing too much follow up and it is in this unquestioning area that propaganda has its day.

As to the roles of females in the order of things, I am truly in favour of a meritocracy. If a woman is the best person to do the job then she should get on with it and do it and not be marginalised to the fringes of the play, or as bette Middler succinctly put it in The Rose, to be 'waitresses at the banquet of life'. A problem as I see it is that when women do make it to the top they feel as though they are playing on an uphill field and overcompensate. That is why it is easy to point at say, Margaret Thatcher. For what it is worth I feel Benazir Bhutto would have been good for her people and that is why she had to be stopped.

As to whether or not I am a barbarian, that depends of the social level from which you view me (ha).

I have just finished with APs phumph site on the Protocols and I think doggy training school is going to save me from launching into Jame's link and then on to Klikz Occult Technology of Power site. I was to a 30th wedding anniversary last night and haven't got the head for it today.

kikz said...

i didn't remb the 'mazzini' spelling either, so don't beat yourself up too badly on that account.

my bookmarks could rival a chaotic ele version of the lib/alexandria.. so i had to go dig it up....but, as the subj is listed under 'pike' in my masonic bkmarks.. that portion didn't take long, but not having 'mazzini' tagged as mentioned in 'chap X 'of that link took entirely too long to tease out..
sloppy bkmks, bad kk...

even using 'find'/"mazz" going chap/chap.. i should've had it tagged more specifically.

noting the spell mistake, i thought to hilight it..just for clarity's sake.

so much goes on in a person's life, short of tending to necessities of survival, be that physical or mental.. it'sa wonder any of us can step outside such, and consider anything else at all..

most times i post here durin the wk... it's prob in the area of 04:30A+, thru groggy mind/eyes...first coffee...

hell, that time a the morn, i'm lucky to remb my own name ...

back to whether ideology such as expressed in unattested things like the protocols, occult tech of power, is useful.....i would give a resounding yes.

much can be learned (as noby stated) - we at least can recognize the ideology and modus operandi; if not identical in nature to the MO of the bright and shadowy power structures that orchestrate world events, quite accurate a gauge - object lessons (as it were) - offered by whomever wished its readership to become aware of...

all this - irrespective of israel's existence as a physical state.

the ideological comparison and physical outcomes noted do seem accurate, on many counts.

hopefully they can be used to predict future behaviors of any these players that we might end up as collateral damage under...if not recognized and avoided..

literary fiction can serve a greater instructional purpose...

i've utilized orwell's animal farm to great advantage w/my kids, even @ 12 & 15, all three have a good grasp of its lessons... one of them even noticed (umprompted by me) that a similar device (posting of ever lengthening list of rules on the barn wall) was adopted by JKRowling in one of her Potter books... proud moment for me;)

another, at a much younger age, struggling thru LOTR's books, recognized and conveyed the abstract concept - baby bush construed as LOTR's sauron - ableit a stupid one....

gallier.. i hope the links were helpful..

nobody said...

Interesting Interesting. There I was chasing 'The Affair of the Poisons' (a thing I fell upon in Brittanica) and now I'm in amongst Leo Taxil. What a strange fellow! Without having gone into it in depth he appears to be yet another (in a very long line) keen to uncover the truth of the world's wickedness, and then to pin it on the wrong people. As usual - No Jews Here.

I'm thinking that the only question that counts is - Did Rothschild fund Weisshaupt or didn't he? If he did then the logic of he-who-paid-the-piper must follow. But absurdly everyone carries on as if Rothschild handed over his money and was then struck with amnesia or something. Perhaps Rothschild was that variety of fool who's soon parted from his money, ha ha. Yeah right!

As for the topic of checking things I don't know that anyone can ever be exhaustive. I use a few shortcuts that I trust. In terms of who is or isn't Jewish, I type the family name into google plus 'funeral'. If I get five in a row and they're all the same religion, then I take it as a done deal. For instance for Wachowski all I got was Roman Catholics. Mind you, I'd never heard of Sabbateans then.

As for things like the Talmud I tend to put it into google along with 'debunk' or 'false' or somesuch. I found several site debunking false Talmud bits and pieces and I have to say that it was a truly pathetic exercise (on their part, that is). It conisisted of little more than nitpicking and excuse making. It was so embarassing you'd wonder why they'd bothered. Thus, if the apologists attack some minor quibble and leave the overal intent unchallenged then I take it as read.

Same same all those famous Israeli quotes. And same same the Kol Nidre. It's really something isn't it? But Kikz, the Kol Nidre differs quite significantly from the confession insofar as the Kol Nidre gives one absolution in advance. At least under confession one is forced to acknowledge the sinful nature of past behaviour. Kol Nidre says, 'A tuppence for sins, here's your license, off you go.'

And thanks Tache, that's all saved to desktop for this evening's read. And Reggie Perrin! I'd forgotten how good it was. I'm kicking myself for not having bought the entire series when I found it in a second hand shop for ten bucks. God knows how I'm going to hunt them down now...

kikz said...

"But Kikz, the Kol Nidre differs quite significantly from the confession insofar as the Kol Nidre gives one absolution in advance. At least under confession one is forced to acknowledge the sinful nature of past behaviour. Kol Nidre says, 'A tuppence for sins, here's your license, off you go.'"

ok, i really don't like being so pointed w/my line of inquiry.. but..lets get down to brass tacks.

yes, and to what end?

penance for perceived sin and absolution granted? ..lather, rise, repeat? one can 'lather, rinse, repeat - ask forgiveness from their god/creator their entire lives w/o intervention or need of any other living thing...
unless one deems it necessary to have an intermediary btwn them and their deity.

even non-confession is a sin... right?
"forgive me father for i have sinned, it's been ??????? minutes/days/yrs since my last confession....yadaX3...."

i see no reason for 'this' other than its propensity for abuse by the church; be used as co-oercion to remain loyal to the faith/powerstructure?

please tell me if i err w/respect to understanding the catholic concept of 'sin'.. don't catholics commit original sin, simply by being born of woman and drawing first breath?

sorry noby,

but i think you've neglected to include the 'jez' ... in that line of thought concerning pre-absolution difference, btwn heeb/nol kidre vs RC/confession for the general populations of 'faithful.

but priests, especially jez priests take quite different oaths to the church and its hierarchies.

think about it.. if your mission was to murder liz I(regecide), mission accomplished or not; more than likely, you wouldn't return to the presence of any sympathetic clergy that could offer you absolution... aftr the fact. so it would have to be granted beforehand.

IF, we are to take into account as 'reliable authority' on the subj.

nobody said...

Sure Kikz, I can see your point. Me, I'd say the whole thing is arguable. I could argue the difference and you could argue the similarity, and then we could swap sides and argue each other's case. You know what I mean?

How about this? Imagine one is carte blanche and the other involves an account after the event. It's true that technically there's no difference since the job gets done and the invoice gets paid - but if you were to ask a tradesman which he prefers I don't think there'd be much humming and hawing going on. Like they say in Thailand, same, same, different. Certainly nothing to get het up about.

As for the Jesuits I don't know a lot about them. But lately did you read AP's account of Ignatius Loyola and the founding of the Jesuits? What with him being a converso Jew does the wickedness of the Jesuits speak poorly of... whom exactly?

Not forgetting that a remarkably similar discussion could be had on the topic of the Masons. I'm fairly sparing in my bashing of the Masons here since I figure that they closely resemble the Catholics insofar as the vast majority are well-meaning decent people. And yet clearly the Masons, like the Catholic church, have been corrupted.

You defend the Masons because your lifelong connection with them has been good. Me, I was connected with the Catholic church right up until I finished high school. I won't say it was all good but I'll happily declare that I saw no paedophilia or corruption or anything like. There was a priest who slept with my mother, but big deal: my mother slept with lots of people with the majority probably not even being Catholics, ha ha.

Meanwhile, with the pointy ends of both the Catholics and Masons seemingly corrupted it seems it's the lot of the vast unknowing majority of each institution to view the other as the enemy.

Ha ha ha, and that ladies and gentlemen, is how it's done!

Anonymous said...

That, ladies and gentlemen is how to muddy the waters, accuse your opponent of doing what you just did to get yourself off the hook.:-)

Talking of regicide, which we weren't, under English law it still a crime of treason punishable by death to 'imagine' the death of the monarch. I don't think it means idly thinking about it, otherwise we would all be for the chop. Don't the lawyers get into some weird semantics?

kikz said...

“Meanwhile, with the pointy ends of both the Catholics and Masons seemingly corrupted it seems it's the lot of the vast unknowing majority of each institution to view the other as the enemy.”


what constitutes an enemy? and how far will they go to protect their interests?

Enemy \En"e*my\, n.; pl. Enemies. [OF. enemi, F. ennemi, from L. inimicus; in- (negative) + amicus friend. See Amicable.]

One hostile to another; one who hates, and desires or attempts the injury of, another; a foe; an adversary; as, an enemy of or to a person; an enemy to truth, or to falsehood. [1913 Webster]

......well, in any comparison of two or more things… we should define the things and their (known) attributes.

catholic church|rome|vatican – a ‘revealed’ monotheistic ‘christian’ religion, touted by members as singular|sole path to deity|salvation; leader is considered to be god’s regent on earth, regent runs|owns the earth…..salvation|reunion w/deity depends on conformity/obedience to revealed dogma, nonconformity (apostasy, heresy) to revealed dogma leads to excommunication and pronouncement of eternal suffering (somewhere?) ie., hell. old days - forced conversions on point of death or exile; apostasy|heresy - forced confessions, convictions were met w/slow painful physical death. all or nothing.

modern freemasonry (post purge) – not a religion - no prescribed/proscribed path to deity/salvation.
fraternal order who studies revealed and natural religions, philosophy, mathematics, natural sciences and history for ethical and moral lessons; no revealed dogma, no threat of damnation or physical death for nonconformity to teachings. only prerequisites; belief in a supreme being, and the immortality of the human soul. buffet; weigh what is taught, keep what is true, leave the rest.

nobody said...

It seems we're having an argument Kikz but I'm not sure what it's about. That the Catholics are-so-too wicked? Or something.

I understand that there are differences between the Catholics and the Masons but that doesn't mean there aren't similarities as well. Clearly they're both power structures functioning in a pyramidal fashion. Each has a stated grand purpose and each has a means by which people are united in this stated purpose. I'm given to thinking that in both their cases the stated purpose is one thing and the motivation of the pointy end is another. No?

Anyway, I'm happy to concede that the Catholics are wicked. My only caveat on that (and always has been) is that in spite of my entire education coming under the Catholics (in five completely separate institutions, with a single term at a Church of England grammar school), I never saw anything wicked. In every one of those schools the product matched the sales pitch if you can dig it. I'd love to tell stories of the horrific violence I encountered but I can't. A single cane on the palm age 9 and a single strap on the palm age 16. The most unpleasant thing was a really sustained rapping on the skull I received from a maths teacher (sustained on account of me persisting in not knowing the answer) that occurred at the C of E school.

I know people hate the Catholics, and I can dig it. I didn't quit for nothing. But in much the same way that you declared over at Les' that the Masons saved your daughter, I can say that the Catholics did alright by me. You didn't see any Masonic wickedness and I didn't see any Catholic wickedness. What does that mean? Something? Nothing? What does it mean that in the fifties in Australia the Catholics and the Masons used to fight pitch battles in the street? Hell if I know. All I know is that they don't do it anymore.

Otherwise, back to the original subject (confession v kol nidre) I recall going to confession. I probably went a couple dozen times. Believe it or not for me it functioned as was stated and its get-out-of-jail-free nature never occurred to me. But I was a kid so what would I know? Mind you, I doubt any kid would miss the absolution-in-advance nature of kol nidre. No?

For mine confession can serve as a process by which delusion is cast off. In telling another of the nature of one's transgressions, their true nature can be faced. In this regard it's not a million miles away from counselling. Which is to say it's not impossible for the confession to function as advertised, ie. in a good way.

How about kol nidre? Is there any good aspect to that? Is there any good spin we can put on it, whereby telling an individual that he may say anything he likes and need not stick to it, somehow doesn't stink?

That being said, may I say that this is not any blanket defence of the Catholic Church? It was only ever a fine point and frankly I think it stands. Is that cool?

kikz said...

it's all good noby...